V4: Late War - Armies of War

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Jamrowski
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V4: Late War - Armies of War

Postby Jamrowski » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:15 am

Saw this.....

http://btassault.wpengine.com/armies-of ... -thoughts/

Still not made up my mind in terms of ‘Allied’ Formations - being able to use British and American formations (various combos of Infantry and Armour) simultaneously in the same force (V3 Market Garden currently has some powerful lists mixing US Infantry with double ‘Firefly’ Sherman platoons) could make for some ‘dirty lists’ (US Armoured Infantry backed by Semi Indirect firing British Armour and / or Canadian Infantry backed by ‘Pick and Mix’ US Sherman’s are two that immediately spring to mind :shock: ).

Can’t imagine facing Semi Indirect British Sherman Armoured Company ‘campers’ combined with an aggressive (and stabilised) US ‘Pick and Mix’ Sherman Company would be much fun either (you get the best of both worlds......)

Still, I’m sure Battlefront know what they are doing.......
Last edited by Jamrowski on Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: V4: Late War - Armies of War

Postby Vyper » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:15 am

Bah, bring out the Eastern Front already! Dangit.
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Re: V4: Late War - Armies of War

Postby Jamrowski » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:07 pm

Vyper wrote:Bah, bring out the Eastern Front already! Dangit.



Believe it or not, latest rumour (from a very informed source) is that Eastern Front (Mid War) is unlikely to be available before Q4 2018 :(
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Re: V4: Late War - Armies of War

Postby Lavallin » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:49 am

That's very disappointing if true. I really don't feel that the v4 roll-out has been well managed - the rules inherently are somewhat split between desert MW "full" v4, and EW/LW "v3.9"; the fact that Eastern Front MW has not been properly rolled into either of these means that various armies are, pun intended, left out in the cold.

Leaving aside the questions of what does and does not work well in the v4 ruleset, the simple fact that Battlefront are actively fragmenting their own community is really worrying for the future of the game.

Flames isn't perfect, but so far it's the WW2 game that best does what I want, and I'd be sorry to see it fail because of poor management decisions.
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Re: V4: Late War - Armies of War

Postby Jamrowski » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:24 pm

....back to the old adage: if it isn’t broke don’t fix it!

Feels to me like BF are going through a transition similar to GW when they launched the ‘garbage’ 6th edition of 40k; a few years later they are on 8th edition which I think is a fantastic system but clearly it’s just a simplified / iterated version of 5th edition (that in general worked very well); all the garbage from 6th and 7th edition appears to have been subsequently dropped (for the better). The obvious downside is that it feels like 5 years of elapsed time went by before GW corrected their mistakes......not sure BF have that much time given current attrition rates.

My source is Robin; you may have met him a the UKGT? (He’s close to BF UK and a major player behind a number of UK / Euro events (he’s normally spot on when it comes to ‘news’)).

Battlegroup sales / interest seems to be on the up; not tried it personally, but it sounds interesting as a system.....
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Re: V4: Late War - Armies of War

Postby Lavallin » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:22 pm

Robin Spence? If so, nice chap, played a good game against my brother, and a very smartly painted force.

Battlegroup has interesting bits that I very much like, but for me the scale is too small - activation by units (single tanks, infantry teams), 'admin' for tracking things (infantry casualties, if not singly based, and (admittedly optional) tank ammunition expenditure) and not the same emphasis on company-level combined arms. I definitely don't dislike it, but it doesn't quite scratch the right itch for me.
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Re: V4: Late War - Armies of War

Postby Lavallin » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:59 am

Jamrowski wrote:....back to the old adage: if it isn’t broke don’t fix it!

Feels to me like BF are going through a transition similar to GW when they launched the ‘garbage’ 6th edition of 40k; a few years later they are on 8th edition which I think is a fantastic system but clearly it’s just a simplified / iterated version of 5th edition (that in general worked very well); all the garbage from 6th and 7th edition appears to have been subsequently dropped (for the better). The obvious downside is that it feels like 5 years of elapsed time went by before GW corrected their mistakes......not sure BF have that much time given current attrition rates.


The more I think about it, the more I agree with this. I fear v4 is going to end up being a 'lost' edition, and that in some time (hopefully not long, but I'd be surprised if it were less than 4 years) we'll see a v5 which thoroughly revamps FoW keeping the best bits from v3 and v4 (and possibly some bits from v2, e.g. I'd quite like to see artillery "Across the Volga" come back, at least as an option).

Something I started saying toward the end of v3 (when we were seeing significant power creep in lists) was that I'd like to look at more scenario play. I think that still would help for v4, as I do think having pre-defined lists could help address some of the most egregious rules issues around morale.

Other than that, I am happy to try out other rules sets if anyone knows of any they'd like to recommend?
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Re: V4: Late War - Armies of War

Postby Jamrowski » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:28 pm

Yep - same chap (Mr Strelkovy himself)

I think you have hit on something with Scenario play - could be the way forward locally with the current V4 ruleset and V3 ‘power creep’ army lists (although in fairness and with the exception of Market Garden / Bridge by Bridge), opposing armies selected from the same book / theatre do seem to be a good / balanced match overall (especially after Pattons rules were updated / nerfed).

I’ve fielded / played against lists from Nuts, Remagen, Desperate Measures, Blood Guts and Glory and the Italy Series books and every game has been close / exciting where the opponent has an army from the same book / theatre. Where thing do start to ‘creak’ is when you field a Remagen list against an Italy theatre list for example (Generally, the later published book always feels more competitive)......

Sounds like BF are going through a similar phase to GW a few years back - power creep Codex books followed by some frankly average / daft (delete as appropriate) main rule updates?

All BF needed to do really was update the Mid War books (loads of theatre scope) and roll out a Korea supplement....
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Re: V4: Late War - Armies of War

Postby TrenchyJJ » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:17 pm

I do feel the best thing they can do at this point is suddenly announce V5, a version suspiciously similar to V3.
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Re: V4: Late War - Armies of War

Postby Jamrowski » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:19 pm

Well.....
My copy of ‘Armies of Late War’arrived today.
Fantastically laid out / presented (BF still know how to put a decent book together).
.....that’s it for the positives sadly (clearly it’s a very ‘general’ book (ignore pun), rather than being theatre specific - all a bit underwhelming really (it feels like a direct replacement for the old V3 ‘Fortress Europe’ book).

I still think Brits / US allied formation lists has the potential to break the game....

-The Good: British Infantry or Tank Formation Allied to US Tank Destroyer Formations (or how about Cromwell’s and Pick and Mix US Shermans (with the option of being up-Armoured of course)). Comet formation alongside US Armoured Infantry anyone :D
(I actually like the option to take T-34 /85’s in platoons of less than 5 and be able to get Valentines in the same formation)
-The Bad: British Cromwell Formation with Firefly’s but no Challenger option? No easy Eights or Jumbo’s for the US?? (Lol - probably because BF don’t make them in plastic yet??)
-The Ugly: Soviet Churchill Lend Lease Formation (never seen one used - ever; however there are loads of Lend Lease Sherman Companies being used......so why BF chose to list a Soviet Churchill formation in support of V4 over a Sherman formation is beyond me). If you want to play Churchill’s, there’s a British Churchill formation in the book.....
IS-2 formation?? Ok, BF make them in plastic kit form but I’ve never seen an IS-2 formation used either (probably because the 1 shot Weapon combined with slow firing makes them soooo frustrating to use). Why bother with 2 really unpopular lists / Formations - BF would have done better to have included an Assault Gun formation!

Lol - bring on V5!!
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Re: V4: Late War - Armies of War

Postby Graeme_the_Bald » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:30 pm

As you know, I have not played a great deal for the last, er ever, but I do think BF have messed up with V4. They seemed to think they can get more players by making it simpler, but since when have wargames ever been simple? I really don't understand why FoW and TY need different rules for the basic stuff like moving, shooting & blowing stuff up. They need to speed up the convergence so it's easy to switch between eras and theatres without getting utterly confused. All that changes from 1945 to 1985 is the technology; men are still men and tanks are still tanks; develop the game to Korea, Vietnam, Israel, pretend WW3, Gulf War etc and along the way progressively chuck in some extra rules for missiles, jets and helos etc. There's no reason for any difference in basic gameplay.

I'm slowly accepting the fact that I'm really a modeller & collector at heart, although I do like to work towards a playable list (it just takes a loooong time!). My cupboard is full of unhappy little German PzPioniers and Fallschirmjaegers who won't be allowed out to play until V4 LW beds in a lot more. Meantime, Stripes is out next month, and Peter Pig does some truly lovely USMC figs who put the meh in BFs Mech platoon figs. Roll on Xmas!

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