Flames of War v4 House Rules Thread

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Lavallin
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Flames of War v4 House Rules Thread

Postby Lavallin » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:48 pm

I'm enjoying Flames Version 4 so far, but - partly as a result of the streamlining of the rules - there seem to be some areas of the rules which either don't quite work well, or where the rules as written don't quite cover what is clearly the intent. I'll save this top post for "agreed" house rules - I'll leave each suggestion up for a period of about 2 weeks or so, and then take a consensus at the end of that time as to whether we should try that as a community, or keep things as they are.

For anyone else who'd like to suggest a house rule, please feel free. I'm going to do mine in the format of current rule / issues / proposed rule / why I think that would help.

----

Agreed Vanguard Club House Rules:

None Yet!
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Re: Flames of War v4 House Rules Thread

Postby Lavallin » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:50 pm

Interaction of Morale rules with Rearguard Mission

Current Rules:
A Formation is not in Good Spirits (and automatically breaks) if it has only one "core" Unit on the table (my bold). The Rearguard Mission requires you to withdraw units (as per the old Fighting Withdrawal). Withdrawn units are counted as destroyed if not in Good Spirits.

Issue: Whereas v3 morale for Fighting Withdrawal only looked at half of your total army being destroyed (again my bold), the new rules are harsher in terms of units 'not on the table'. Withdrawing a 'core' unit used to simply mean that it neither counted as destroyed nor still fighting; now it is a shortcut to breaking your army. Additionally, Rearguard is more favourable to the Attacker than Fighting Withdrawal was, as no objectives are removed.

Proposal: If any core Unit which was in Good Spirits is withdrawn using the Strategic Withdrawal rule, count your Formation Morale as if one additional unit were on the table. The remaining troops can see that the withdrawal is working and endeavour to hold on and make every minute count.

Alternatively, keep the Objectives rules from Fighting Withdrawal.

Discussion: Having one off-table platoon means that a Formation can still be broken, but it is much harder. I considered going for platoons on a one-for-one basis, but don't want to get to a point where a Formation becomes invulnerable. I suspect that this helps larger forces more than smaller elite ones, but that's a gut feeling and has had no testing.
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Re: Flames of War v4 House Rules Thread

Postby Lavallin » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:53 pm

Blitz Moves

Current Rules: If a Team Moves using Blitz Move, but does not Move any further, it is not considered to have Moved and can Shoot at its Halted ROF.

Issue: People on the Internet have spotted various ways this breaks things. This includes "they didn't move, so they're still in their foxholes" (portable trenches?); claiming to still be concealed per 'stationary in the open', and claiming still to be gone to ground.

Proposal: If a Team Moves using Blitz Move, but does not Move any further, it has obviously Moved. It is not considered to have moved for the purposes of Shooting, and can Shoot at its Halted ROF.

Discussion: I genuinely feel there's no discussion needed and that this is a common sense RAI/RAW fix.
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Re: Flames of War v4 House Rules Thread

Postby Graeme_the_Bald » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:46 pm

Obvious question, but worth asking; these issues/questions are not already covered in Field Manual 101? I'm pretty sure there was something in there about Blitz move, and it being pretty self evident that if teams have moved 4" they aren't going to carry their foxholes with them!

Edit: Doh! FM101 is TY. Must be a FAQ for V4 tho?
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Re: Flames of War v4 House Rules Thread

Postby Lavallin » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:13 pm

I expect there will be one in due course, but for whatever reason, Phil (the main designer) seems to be reluctant to provide statements on the official forum at the moment. As I say, the Blitz move one seems like such an obvious fix to me. It's not even a detailed interaction of rules under v4; it's just a bit of wording which they forgot to include.
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Re: Flames of War v4 House Rules Thread

Postby Lavallin » Tue May 02, 2017 9:41 am

One more which Peter reminded me of yesterday:

HQ Attachments

Current Rules:
None.

Issue: Whereas once upon a time HQ attachments, e.g. Panzerschrecks, extra pioneers, mortars, etc, were able to be combat attached, in v4 this is no longer the case, and they remain part of a formed "Company Command element" at all times. On the one hand, this limits their effectiveness (unless you're willing to put the CO at risk); on the other hand it gives you another team with which to keep the boss alive with Mistaken Target etc. However, it fundamentally restricts these teams from fulfilling their battlefield purpose.

Proposal: Use old v3 rules: Prior to the start of the game, Infantry Teams must be combat attached to a Combat or Weapons platoon; Gun Teams may be attached out or may continue to be led by the commander(s); Tank Teams may not be attached and remain part of the HQ unit.

Alternatively, optionally use old v3 rules: both Infantry and Gun teams may be attached, or may be retained.

Discussion: Because Quality of Quantity is less good than it used to be (IMHO), adding Pioneers to a Strelkovy unit helps the Soviets less than it used to. Conversely, attaching out single Anti Tank teams ('schrecks, PIATs) helps a lot. On the other hand, large blobs are already hard enough to break. Making them even huger is a scary prospect. Overall, I don't think this is a massively unbalancing change.

Also, to note, while mortars are now so much better than v3, mortars led by both CO and 2i/c are more limiting than being able to use just the 2i/c to babysit while the CO goes off and runs things.
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Re: Flames of War v4 House Rules Thread

Postby Lavallin » Sat May 13, 2017 10:38 am

Lavallin wrote:One more which Peter reminded me of yesterday:

HQ Attachments

Current Rules:
None.

Issue: Whereas once upon a time HQ attachments, e.g. Panzerschrecks, extra pioneers, mortars, etc, were able to be combat attached, in v4 this is no longer the case, and they remain part of a formed "Company Command element" at all times. On the one hand, this limits their effectiveness (unless you're willing to put the CO at risk); on the other hand it gives you another team with which to keep the boss alive with Mistaken Target etc. However, it fundamentally restricts these teams from fulfilling their battlefield purpose.

Proposal: Use old v3 rules: Prior to the start of the game, Infantry Teams must be combat attached to a Combat or Weapons platoon; Gun Teams may be attached out or may continue to be led by the commander(s); Tank Teams may not be attached and remain part of the HQ unit.

Alternatively, optionally use old v3 rules: both Infantry and Gun teams may be attached, or may be retained.

Discussion: Because Quality of Quantity is less good than it used to be (IMHO), adding Pioneers to a Strelkovy unit helps the Soviets less than it used to. Conversely, attaching out single Anti Tank teams ('schrecks, PIATs) helps a lot. On the other hand, large blobs are already hard enough to break. Making them even huger is a scary prospect. Overall, I don't think this is a massively unbalancing change.

Also, to note, while mortars are now so much better than v3, mortars led by both CO and 2i/c are more limiting than being able to use just the 2i/c to babysit while the CO goes off and runs things.


Just spotted that this one is in the rules already. Page 7.

"A Formation HQ Unit may never Combat Attach out the Formation Command. A Formation HQ Unit make Combat Attachments to any of its Combat Platoon Units."

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