Back to V3 - discuss

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Wiggles
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Back to V3 - discuss

Postby Wiggles » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:15 am

On so devil's advocate time.

There's much to like about v4. I like the streamlining of various aspects, once they come out I'm going to be all about unit cards, and I like the new missions/victory conditions.

On the other hand we've already got 2 house rules about second floor buildings and cover, and gun teams firing as rifle teams, vehicles and buildings are janky and the rule books are a hot mess.

It also seems like support for niche lists is going to be a long time coming.

Do we soldier on, hot-fixing things as we go, or just go back to V3 until bf gets its S*** together?

I'm not really pressing for either, I just think it's something we should discuss if only in the hypothetical.
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Stu's Idle
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Re: Back to V3 - discuss

Postby Stu's Idle » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:15 am

I think there are far more reasons to keep V4 over V3 than not (particularly as a Soviet player :D).

There are clearly some issues with points for most units. Some things have been heavily nerfed with the rules changes but their points have not yet been adjusted to reflect this. There are clearly some (minor?) rule issues but I think most of those can be dealt with with common sense/house rules.

Battlefront are taking their sweet time with updates but this might be a good sign: https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5824
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Jamrowski
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Re: Back to V3 - discuss

Postby Jamrowski » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:47 am

I was a huge advocate of moving to V4 on the basis that BF had done their homework and were managing a timely rollout of revised army lists.
.....how naive am I??
Lots of events (Welsh Open being the most recent I’m aware of) reverted back to V3 as there were too many ambiguities with list structures / points for all armies to be truely valid in a V4 context (morale now make a huge difference and there’s lots of popular lists that no longer work due to limited combat platoon / weapon platoon choices). For ‘fun’ / relaxed play, My preference would still be V4 (for anything remotely competitive in the interest
of fairness, I’d have to give a reluctant nod to V3)
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Vyper
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Re: Back to V3 - discuss

Postby Vyper » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:50 pm

Goddamit guys, I'm only just picking up the v4 rules now! We could just go back to v2 as I actually have the books for those. ;)

Actually finding information is definitely a mess currently and I've definitely been tripped up a few times because I thought I knew a rule but it had turned out to have been erratad or replaced at some point.

Wiggles wrote:On the other hand we've already got 2 house rules about second floor buildings and cover, and gun teams firing as rifle teams, vehicles and buildings are janky and the rule books are a hot mess.


I'm pretty ambivalent about needing a house rule for gun teams firing as rifles. I'm not even sure exactly what our house rule is when it comes to first floor houses? Is it just that the core rules don't allow for shooting over intervening teams/short terrain from first floor rooms whereas we do? I honestly can't imagine playing any other way.

What's a wargame worth if you can't house rule a few bits though. I'm not exactly gearing up for tournament play so I'm happy sticking with v4 and hotfixing anything particularly egregious.
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Lavallin
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Re: Back to V3 - discuss

Postby Lavallin » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:52 pm

There's definitely a need for more errata than is currently in even the FAQ document, and I can't shake the feeling that v4 was probably released well before it was ready.

If I ruled the world - or at least Battlefront - I would have playtested v4 a lot more, with a wide range of groups, terrain types, tournament vs casual players, etc. For example, I get the strong impression that they tend to use relatively few buildings on their boards, whereas at Vanguard we tend to go fairly heavy. So a lack of detailed building rules probably aren't a big deal to them, whereas to us it matters that e.g. a tank can no longer assault a team in a building, per rules as written.

Additionally, I would ideally have tried to do a full relaunch, covering EW, MW and LW all to a moderate depth, so that we didn't have the absurd situation we are in now where significant numbers of lists are stuck in limbo.

Actually, maybe I'd have waited a few years and aligned v4 with an iterative TY v2 (1.5?), so that the few niggly differences between FoW and TY could have been avoided.
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Re: Back to V3 - discuss

Postby Vyper » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:41 am

Lavallin wrote:So a lack of detailed building rules probably aren't a big deal to them, whereas to us it matters that e.g. a tank can no longer assault a team in a building, per rules as written.


I always forget this! I couldn't work out why in my game against Seb he wouldn't just assault the building my troops were in with his tanks, instead of picking off a stand a turn from 16.5" away.

Unfortunately I think things are going to be messier with all the gradual releases over the next year.

EDIT: Apparently the newly announced late-war book is not converting armies to the v4 points system. Does this mean that EW/LW isn't being repointed/balanced and MW is effectively going to be a separate system?
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