BFG Tournament/Campaign

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Lavallin
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Lavallin » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:31 am

Lavallin wrote:Count me in.

Alex; I'll also be bringing an Imperial fleet. Not sure about max points, but once all my eBay purchases finally arrive, it'll be... plenty. Potentially 3k+ as well.


I've just totalled up my whole fleet, admittedly including stuff which is still in the post and hasn't arrived yet. Not including options, upgrades or admirals, it's already over 4,500.

I may need to stay away from eBay for a while.
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Kingpenguin » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:12 pm

Not bad, especially considering you only started collecting this year. What makes up the 4500+ points?
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Lavallin » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:42 pm

I have:

2 Battleship (1 Emperor, 1 Retribution) - but only one Battleship base! Although I'd almost never want to field both simultaneously
4 Battlecruiser (2 Mars, 2 Overlord)
9 Cruiser (3 Dominator, 2 Lunar, 2 Gothic, 1 Dictator, 1 Tyrant - although some are magnetised and somewhat swappable)
1 AdMech Cruiser (fully magnetised)
3 Light Cruiser (2 Dauntless with Lances, 1 with Torps)
10 Frigate (7 Sword, 3 Firestorm)
13 Destroyer (Cobras)
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Kingpenguin » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:57 pm

Cool, all painted too? Care to share some pics of them?
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Lavallin » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:02 pm

Kingpenguin wrote:Cool, all painted too? Care to share some pics of them?


Not even slightly painted! Well, a few ships which have to arrive from eBay are painted, but I'll probably strip the paint off those when they arrive.

And then, when I've finally settled on a colour scheme, they will get painted. Not before the 1500pt practice game next week, but hopefully prior to the first real campaign games. I assume the campaign rules about deploying ships in battle prior to completing their fleet trials (i.e. using unpainted ships) will apply?

Anyway, I have some time off over Easter, so I'll make some time for painting then.
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Kingpenguin » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:17 pm

I'm not sure we will invoke those rules too harshly. I for instance have taken seven years and counting to paint my imperial fleet. I think my only completely painted fleet is chaos and that is only because I wanted to demo with fully painted units. What does everyone think? I want to use some of the campaign rules, but give a bit more granularity to individual unit deployments, so that losses on the battlefield are really felt. I want to create a feeling that all ships are a finite resource, so that you have to really think about their dispositions on the map. I'm not quite sure how I am going to do this without everyone immediately taking horrendous campaign-crippling losses yet, but it is the eventual aim. Feel free to not indulge, but I would like to see you all giving character to your ships throughout the campaign, so they come away with names and battle honours.
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Vyper » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:11 am

What's wrong with just using the standard campaign rules for ship experience? If a ship is destroyed then it is just replaced by a 'fresh' ship at LD6. That can really hurt, but isn't completely crippling as after a couple of good games they should be back to normal or so.

The only thing I would say is that we might want to tweak some of the scenarios as in my experience some of them can be a bit poorly designed.

There's also a far more complex/complete set of rules, albeit unofficial, that you may find interesting: http://saturnfive.us/ships/battlefleet- ... 0v5.16.doc
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby nightwing » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:37 pm

Vyper wrote:What's wrong with just using the standard campaign rules for ship experience? If a ship is destroyed then it is just replaced by a 'fresh' ship at LD6. That can really hurt, but isn't completely crippling as after a couple of good games they should be back to normal or so.

The only thing I would say is that we might want to tweak some of the scenarios as in my experience some of them can be a bit poorly designed.

There's also a far more complex/complete set of rules, albeit unofficial, that you may find interesting: http://saturnfive.us/ships/battlefleet- ... 0v5.16.doc


Seconded on both counts. Some of the scenarios can definitely be a bit poorly balanced or lopsided
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Kingpenguin » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:32 pm

Thanks for the link. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the campaign rules. I've just always wanted to do a campaign where deployments matter. For example you can actually chose which ships are deployed where and sending small squadrons on scouting missions actually makes those ships unavailable for larger actions. I know not everyone will be into this, so I am going to compromise. Maybe keeping the current rules for list ships as they are, but the 'new' low leadership unit has to start from the very rear of your zone of control, as if it is a re-enforcement from another sector that has to travel in order to link up with the spearhead units.
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Kingpenguin » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:38 pm

I also don't want to impinge upon the in-game playing feel, which does nearly always lead to inevitable heavy losses, so there needs to be a reliable way of replenishing numbers. I want this to be linked to the campaign map, so capturing the correct facilities will give you bonuses when trying to build or refit units. How does everyone feel about black stone fortresses? I like the narrative of having a big Death Star that is available to capture, but again this might be something to introduce as we go through the campaign
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Kingpenguin » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:41 pm

As far as the scenarios go, I was going to write a pool of my own and publish them for each game so they can be tailored for a narrative. I also want the map to be interactive, so that you could say to me, for instance, 'I want to do this because it is cool and I could write an agreed scenario so that we can see if you are able to pull it off.
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Vyper » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:42 pm

Having said that, I think people should be more willing to disengage rather than sticking it out to the bitter end. The campaign rules do also cover replenishing numbers and giving different values to different types of planet.

Personally I think Blackstones ate a bit OTT, except maybe as a late campaign special scenario or narrative device.
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby nightwing » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:09 pm

Any Blackstone Fortress should definitely be in a final, late campaign free for all, rather than a regular feature. I do have a Blackstone Fortress model floating about somewhere though...

I'm happy for whatever campaign rules are decided on anyway
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Lavallin » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:51 am

I don't have enough experience with the campaign rules to know whether they are good or bad; my only concern, from a control theory standpoint, would be whether there is a positive feedback mechanism - i.e. winners keep on winning, and losers keep on losing.

I will definitely need to think about disengaging earlier, because my tendency is more towards Mahan's Decisive Battle than Corbett's maintenance of a Fleet In Being; however given the low odds of a Reinforcements Appeal and low rates of repair (especially if it comes on the back of a few bad games and lost sectors) I simply cannot afford to wager my whole fleet every turn.

Finally, I have no strong feelings about Blackstone Fortresses. As long as there are rules for attack craft being able to roll a string of sixes to strike the exposed cooling port...
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Vyper » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:06 pm

There is definitely some positive-feedback at play - after all the campaign has to end somehow - based on Renown value and controlling systems. Higher Renown gives you more chance to pick your preferred type of battle, a better Admiral and more appeals. More systems lets you get your ships back into the fight quicker.

Having said that, losing a ship means losing all the accrued crew skills and refits also, potentially making them a significant target. A player with lots of veteran ships might be more likely to withdraw rather than take losses, whereas their opponent with lots of 'green' ships may be willing to throw them into harm's way if they sense even the slightest chance of winning.

Withdrawing is going to be important. Destroyed ships start from scratch at LD6 and Crippled ships lose a point of Leadership. Not being crippled, even if you just disengage, is the only way of gaining LD/Skills.

We should also decide on some kind of background for a campaign. Will we do Imperials vs Orks/Chaos (possibly with some traitor Imperials to even the numbers), do we do an all vs. all campaign or something else entirely?

I do have a couple of proposed changes to the stock rules however:

1. Refits are generally not worth the points. For a 10% increase in cost you get a random skill, from a random table that often are not worth the cost. I'd be inclined to make these upgrades 'free', just like Crew Skills, to encourage their use.

2. A roll of a 2 or 3 on the Space Marines table is just silly as it grants a free Battle Barge or two Strike Cruisers in your next game for free. This can very much result in a non-game and I'd suggest replacing these options with something else. Possibly just make it equal to the result of a '4' which is one freebie Strike Cruiser next battle.

3. Given that Ork players have a full fleet list (rather than just the Pirate fleet as originally printed) they should act as regular players in the campaign, rather than acting as pirates.

EDIT:

4. I don't think defenders should be docked points when defending neutral systems. It just discourages proper defense of unoccupied systems.
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Vyper » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:07 am

Admiral Esteban Rowan is a confident commander who rose up the ranks through experience of combat and is well liked by his men because of it. A pious, headstrong man he made a name for himself as part of the Southern Rebellion between 994.M41 and 998.M41 before being given command of his own Battlefleet.

Early life and career
Born in Doubling, a notorious gambling sector on the hive world of Ire, Rowan stowed away at the age of 10 arriving at Piqua's Reach where he graduated from Naval college. He was appointed midshipman in the Imperial Navy on 2230959.M41 at the age of 17. Later, he took an active role in the Mexo uprising, serving as executive officer of the sloop Cyane during the capture of Monterey City on 2483979.M41, and in the occupation of both Saint Iago and The Angels.

Civil War service
Captain of the sloop Pawnee at the outbreak of the Southern Rebellion, he attempted to relieve Fort Sumter and the siege on its orbital shipyard. In 994.M41, he assisted in the capture of the Fortress World of Hatteras; then, taking command of a flotilla in the Nocal system, he cooperated in the capture of Roanoke in 2095995.M41. Promoted to captain for gallantry, he then supported the capture of Saint Elizabeth, Edenton, and New Bern. During 996.M41, he commanded the cruiser New Ironsides on blockade duty of the Charleston shipyards and the following year assumed command of Imperial forces in the Nocal system. During this time a squadron of rebel torpedo frigate attacked the New Ironsides with short burn torpedoes. In the ensuing explosion hundreds of men were killed and a large hole was torn into the cruiser but she continued her blockading duties.

Post Civil War service
Commissioned admiral on 2102999.M41, aged 57, Rowan serves as Commander of Battlefleet Valkyrie at the outbreak of a chaos incursion in the Duke sector.
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Jamrowski » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:09 am

Assuming I'm not too late.....

I'm in (assuming there's room for one more). Given my perception there's going to be plenty of 'Imperial Stuff', I'll throw my lot in with 'Evil Stu'; not sure when things are going to 'Kick off', but if I have a couple of weeks then Dark Eldar for me (assuming it's an escalation campaign, that should give me time to 'kit bash' some ships from my 40k Spares box). If the start is imminent, then Necrontyr for me (someone needs to take the moral high ground after all - no 'dirty' Nova Cannons in my list :D).

I also believe Hollywood Steve would also like to get involved, albeit I'm not sure he uses the forum much.....
Assuming he's not too late to crash the party, it'll be Imperial Navy (Boo, Hiss) for Steve
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Kingpenguin » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:23 am

Not too late at all Jhono, good to have you both. Yes, it will be escalation, so get painting! I'm going Tau for a bit of variety
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Jamrowski » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:11 am

Thanks D, much appreciated. Apologies if I missed it earlier in the thread - will we be playing the 'original' rules or Battlefleet Gothic 'Revised' (the updated Specialist games version).
Also....
Are fleets limited to ships in Armada or can we use any 'official ships' from editions of 'Fanatic' etc (just so the slave forges know exactly what they can and cannot build!)
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Vyper » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:25 pm

Just to be clear, BFG: Revised is not a specialist games version, rather it's a fan made one.

Personally I'd recommend using the 2010 FAQ/Compendium which, whilst not made by the original BFG writers, is fairly official as it pulls in all the stuff from the magazines too.
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby nightwing » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:16 pm

Vyper wrote:Just to be clear, BFG: Revised is not a specialist games version, rather it's a fan made one.

Personally I'd recommend using the 2010 FAQ/Compendium which, whilst not made by the original BFG writers, is fairly official as it pulls in all the stuff from the magazines too.


Agreed. About as official as it gets
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Jamrowski » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:49 am

So, talking of 'Official' - let's tackle the subject of Ships......
'Armada' only or can ships featured in Fanatic, Warp Rift, White Dwarf etc, etc also be used (basically I'm after a half legal excuse to convert some Dark Eldar Light Cruisers and a Battlecruiser).
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Vyper » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:37 pm

What are Dark Eldar light cruisers/battlecruisers in? I don't remember having come across them before!
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Jamrowski » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:50 pm

They were in Warp Rift and Fanatic; no idea what issue nos. I'll need to check. Probably the same for a lot of ships (I can recall a variety of different ships for a range of races being published in Warp Rift). As long as there's no objections to them being used I'll get kit bashing......(I'll be nice to have the option to field more that 2 types of ship for sure!)
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Vyper » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:53 pm

As long aa it was published in some vaguely official way then I'm okay with it. I was using the Enforcer the other day which I think was a magazine publication and then later appeared in the additional ships compendium.

Honestly I'm surprised that I hadn't come across more Dark Eldar ships earlier. I know Eldar and Orcs all had light cruisers made for them.
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Jamrowski » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:37 am

Lol: you make is sound so competitive!

Warp Rift 16: small section dedicated to Dark Eldar (Battlecruiser <ok, technically it's a Grand Cruiser> and Slaver Corsair introduced).

Light Cruiser was introduced in Book of Nemesis (although widely recognised, I don't actually know how 'Official' it is?); it contains some awesome looking Imperial and Chaos ships!

*Dave: can we have a ruling on the inclusion of ships from BON please?
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Vyper » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:30 am

Cathedral Spaceships are serious business, of course. ;)

Never heard of book of Nemesis, but took a look and there are some cool bits in there like Chaos Light Cruisers. Happy for Dave to call on this one. :)
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Jamrowski » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:36 am

Vyper wrote:Cathedral Spaceships are serious business, of course. ;)

Never heard of book of Nemesis, but took a look and there are some cool bits in there like Chaos Light Cruisers. Happy for Dave to call on this one. :)


It's been around for a while (certainly on the Specialist Games 'circuit')
Personally, I quite like the look of some of the ships etc in BON; appear to be really well thought out (not that I would ever stoop so low as to resort to using ships of Imperial or Chaos Navy's :mrgreen: ).

Dave's call (but with some subtle influencing, I'm sure he'll transform into the 'Man from Del Monte' <minus pineapples!> and say "Yes")
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Kingpenguin » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:45 pm

Ah the easy (or not so) questions have already started I see. I'm actually out of the country at a conference at the moment, so replies will be hampered a little. Please be patient. I think the crux of this ruling needs to be a demonstration of parity and fairness. If you want to use a ship that isn't in the 2010 compendium, or endorsed within the current specialist arms forum, then please post their stats within this forum or a separate thread, with some explanation of how you see them fitting into the fluff and general balance of the game. This will mean that you can experiment with new and exotic designs, which I think is quite in keeping with the lore, but also gives everyone a chance to see what they will be up against. I would prefer it if currently accepted designs were used so 2010 is to be the norm, but other ships are acceptable as long as you can demonstrate their fairness (as far as possible) and also post their stats openly within this forum. Is everyone content with this?
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Re: BFG Tournament/Campaign

Postby Kingpenguin » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:58 pm

I should also add that if I do perceive something posted as not within the general scope of either fairness or fluff, and subsequently ask you not to use it, that you respect this decision in the interests of making this campaign fun for all. It hopefully won't come to this, but I must lay down the law in some cases to ensure that you get the sort of campaign management that will meet your expectations. Otherwise we might get a bit off track.

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