Tanksgiving 2017

For upcoming tournaments and Events local and further afield

What system would you like to play?

Poll ended at Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:56 pm

Flames of War - EW
0
No votes
Flames of War - MW
0
No votes
Flames of War - LW
5
83%
Team Yankee
1
17%
Something else
0
No votes
Nothing, I just like answering polls
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 6
User avatar
Jamrowski
Committee Member
Posts: 1022
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:43 am
Location: Jacksonville - "Go Jags"
Flag: Christmas Island

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:24 am

Lavallin wrote:
Jamrowski wrote:
Lavallin wrote:
Again, I don't have my books with me, so I'd have to check. From memory, is that one platoon of halftracked infantry and one of Wespes as the core units?


As good as; they are actually Pioneers in KFZ 70's with Wespes backed by Armour choices in the Support Platoon list.

Another one that crossed my mind for the rules police (possibly less contentious than the above): Soviet Forward Detachment from Red Bear (PEREDOVOYE OTRYAD). It's mechanised but in a Soviet way: HQ is Infantry plus a Tank, Core Choices are Tank Platoon plus an Infantry Platoon.....


Right, official (sounding) ruling time:

HG Schwereaufklärungsschwadron is out, because the majority of its core units are infantry or gun teams.

The Peredovoye Otryad is in because, not counting the two transport platoons, >50% of its core units can be taken from units which are composed of Tank Teams. BUT if you want to take this list, it also has to be built this way, with >50% of your core units as Tank type.


Yep: fine with ruling - to be honest the only way I would build it would be with >50% core as Tanks; if I field on the day I'll send you the Army list in advance for peer review / approval ;)
Team Yankee: US Armoured Division
Flames of War: Fighting First / Afrika Korps
DUST Tactics: USMC
40k: Grey Knights
User avatar
Jamrowski
Committee Member
Posts: 1022
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:43 am
Location: Jacksonville - "Go Jags"
Flag: Christmas Island

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:11 pm

Assuming there will be missions with 'Reserves' what is the ruling re: points on the board (for 1500 pts games, it's normally 900 pts <60%>). If we are playing 1525 pts, are we going to maintain the 60% 'rule' and allow 915 pts on the board?
Team Yankee: US Armoured Division
Flames of War: Fighting First / Afrika Korps
DUST Tactics: USMC
40k: Grey Knights
User avatar
Lavallin
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:23 am

Missions will be selected using the "stances" (attack/manoeuvre/defend) from the More Missions PDF; missions with Reserves (incl Delayed, Scattered, Deep) will use the standard 60% on the board.

This 60% will be of the final agreed points level, so if e.g. a player brought a 1475pt list to a 1500pt game, they would still be allowed to place 900pts on the board.
User avatar
Jamrowski
Committee Member
Posts: 1022
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:43 am
Location: Jacksonville - "Go Jags"
Flag: Christmas Island

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:49 am

Lavallin wrote:
This 60% will be of the final agreed points level, so if e.g. a player brought a 1475pt list to a 1500pt game, they would still be allowed to place 900pts on the board.


Makes sense; any idea when final points will be agreed? (....just in case I need to paint some tanks!)
Team Yankee: US Armoured Division
Flames of War: Fighting First / Afrika Korps
DUST Tactics: USMC
40k: Grey Knights
User avatar
Lavallin
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:16 am

We seem to be settled nearly-unanimously on LW, and there's also a solid preference for Sunday 3rd Dec. No objections heard to the proposed list of books, either.

As for points, my proposal is as follows; people can then criticise and throw stones as they wish.

Points will be a De-Escalation format! 1st Round 1550pts, 2nd Round 1400pts, 3rd Round 1250pts. This should speed up each round slightly, which will be especially useful if we do play a big team game to finish.

No requirement to have the same units from round to round, although unless it's really impossible to do so, please try to stick at least with the same overall company.

(Is this too silly/unusual?)
User avatar
Lavallin
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:18 am

I'll let this stand for at least a week, maybe two, to let people have a think about things. I'd quite like to confirm next week, but will definitely write up an event pack, including final final details NLT Mon 06 Nov, giving four weeks from that date until the event.
User avatar
Jamrowski
Committee Member
Posts: 1022
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:43 am
Location: Jacksonville - "Go Jags"
Flag: Christmas Island

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:47 am

Lavallin wrote:
(Is this too silly/unusual?)


No - it's just different and there's no harm in that; I'd be happy to try it......

The alternative may be to cap forces at a constant 1500pts for all games and be strict with time / number of turns (as a way of managing the day)

De-escalation with Tank Companies gets my vote however (never played that format before); should get everyone thinking :D

Personally, I'm not too bothered about a large game at the end (I'd be happy to bow out after all competitive rounds); I'm normally exhausted by that point in the late afternoon / evening. Large team games we can pretty much organise for any week day (that said if we do finish early enough I'm happy to throw my lot in rather than leave an odd number of players / unbalanced armies etc)
Team Yankee: US Armoured Division
Flames of War: Fighting First / Afrika Korps
DUST Tactics: USMC
40k: Grey Knights
User avatar
Wiggles
Posts: 568
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:29 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Wiggles » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:55 pm

I think de-escalation could be intersting
Talk is cheap. Come, face me!
740/1550/2355pts FoW Early/Mid/Late
Armada


Obligatory Wargaming Blog
All That Remains Project Blog
Vyper
Posts: 857
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:30 pm

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Vyper » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:49 am

Happy with a de-escalation, although would be somewhat concerned as to how feasible it is to play three games AND a big game at the end!
Your local Infinity War Correspondent.
Check out my wargaming blog at http://www.lead-rising.com.
User avatar
Lavallin
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:13 am

It was pointed out yesterday that the Deep Reserves rule is very tough on tank-only companies (like the old mobile reserves, but more so - only one unit with Front Armour 4 or greater). In my opinion, this is a feature, not a bug, but will lead to the following considerations:

-Be aware that we are using the full More Missions pack. Have a read of this beforehand, but if you don't want to play a mission with Deep Reserves, don't pick Defend! But do be aware that these missions can be in the mix.
-Consider Deep Reserves during force selection; taking e.g. a platoon of infantry, AT guns, or lighter vehicles such as Marders/M10s etc can bulk out your forces.

Also, there was some confusion above about games - my intent had been to go for two 'competitive' games (while still remaining friendly!) and a team game to finish, but would people rather have three singles matches? I'm happy either way around.
User avatar
Jamrowski
Committee Member
Posts: 1022
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:43 am
Location: Jacksonville - "Go Jags"
Flag: Christmas Island

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:34 am

Lavallin wrote:It was pointed out yesterday that the Deep Reserves rule is very tough on tank-only companies (like the old mobile reserves, but more so - only one unit with Front Armour 4 or greater).

Also, there was some confusion above about games - my intent had been to go for two 'competitive' games (while still remaining friendly!) and a team game to finish, but would people rather have three singles matches? I'm happy either way around.


Good call on Deep Reserves - will stop Soviet Tank ‘Spamming’ (or rather it introduces a risk that makes players consider the downside of Tank ‘Spamming’).......not that either Stu or myself would ever do such a thing of course!

My personal preference would be for 3 single matches (Tanksgiving is a great opportunity for me to play against opponents that I would not normally get the opportunity to face during the year); that said, I’d be happy to go with the majority decision.
Team Yankee: US Armoured Division
Flames of War: Fighting First / Afrika Korps
DUST Tactics: USMC
40k: Grey Knights
User avatar
Stu's Idle
Posts: 1308
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:08 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Stu's Idle » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:22 pm

I love the big games so my vote would be for that but I'm also happy to go with the majority.
Flames Of War: Soviets
Team Yankee (6mm and 15mm): Soviets
Bolt Action: Soviets
DUST: SSU aka Soviets (anyone spotted the theme yet?)
Star Wars Armada: Imperials (Space Soviets, a long, long time ago)
Epic Armageddon: Imperials (Space Soviets, in the grim, far future)
Frostgrave: Dwarves (Short Soviets)
Vyper
Posts: 857
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:30 pm

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Vyper » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:19 am

I would also push for the opportunity to have a big game. It's definitely something that we'd have less of a chance to do compared to a series of smaller ones that could be played on evenings.
Your local Infinity War Correspondent.
Check out my wargaming blog at http://www.lead-rising.com.
User avatar
Lavallin
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:16 am

On the basis that we're four weeks out, and there's a (slim) majority, let's go with singles games at 1550 and 1400, and a team game at 1250pts.

So, final details (unless there's a massive outcry):

Date: Sun 03 Dec
Times: setup from 0900; first round 0930 - 1200; second round 1230 - 1500; third round 1530 - 1800+ (team game).

Lists: Tank Companies from "early late war" books (Normandy, Italy, Red Bear/Grey Wolf) and - if you're a bit masochistic - Gung Ho/Banzai. Appropriate period pdfs are fine. Some mechanised companies may be allowed, by application; rule of thumb is that >50% of platoons must be composed of armoured tank teams. Mech Inf is not in the intended spirit.

The format is De-escalation: 1550pts first round, 1400pts second round, 1250pts third round. Points rebate rules apply for redundant command teams, staff teams, etc.

Units do not have to be identical between rounds, but all three lists must be from the same Company/Formation. If using multiple Formations, at least one Formation must be the same in all three rounds.

Missions: The More Missions pdf will be used. If there is not a clear Axis player and Allied player, players will roll off, with the higher roll counting as Allied for the purpose of picking a tactic. Players wishing to make a hidden choice may do so; possible methods include printing some slips of paper; holding one, two or three dice; or having a die with a specific number showing. Come on, you're all grown-ups.

As another reminder, the Deep Reserves rule can be punishing to armour, so think carefully about your list choices and your tactical stances.
Vyper
Posts: 857
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:30 pm

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Vyper » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:21 pm

Lavallin wrote:As another reminder, the Deep Reserves rule can be punishing to armour, so think carefully about your list choices and your tactical stances.


This is proving to be remarkably tricky! Seems to be safe if you never plan on Defending though.
Your local Infinity War Correspondent.
Check out my wargaming blog at http://www.lead-rising.com.
User avatar
Jamrowski
Committee Member
Posts: 1022
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:43 am
Location: Jacksonville - "Go Jags"
Flag: Christmas Island

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:58 am

Do we have a final / confirmed list of runners / riders? (Are we expecting an even split of Axis / Allied entries?)

I must admit, I’m looking forward to it - feels too long since we’ve managed to get the Flames community together (Alex - thanks for all your efforts in terms of making it happen; really appreciated)
Team Yankee: US Armoured Division
Flames of War: Fighting First / Afrika Korps
DUST Tactics: USMC
40k: Grey Knights
User avatar
andycuk
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:11 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby andycuk » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:31 pm

I'm unfortunately unable to do that day - given that I've been unable to get down for a game the past few weeks due to a trapped nerve in my back, I'm incredibly lacking game experience and would just serve as Tiger/StuG fodder anyhow!!
User avatar
Lavallin
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:47 pm

Sorry to hear about your back, and sorry you can't make it. Feel free to drop in anyway if you want to just say hello, and otherwise I hope we'll manage to get a game in at some time maybe in the new year.
User avatar
Lavallin
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:57 pm

Jamrowski wrote:Do we have a final / confirmed list of runners / riders? (Are we expecting an even split of Axis / Allied entries?)

I must admit, I’m looking forward to it - feels too long since we’ve managed to get the Flames community together (Alex - thanks for all your efforts in terms of making it happen; really appreciated)


I definitely don't have the confirmed info to hand, but I believe we've got:

Me - Germans
Jon - Germans (I think)
Chewie - possibly Soviets?
Stu - Soviets
Seb - Brits
Peter - Hungarians
Jono - you tell me!

I hope I'm missing one more, because it would be quite nice to have 8, and four tables. If we do end up with seven, I'm happy to sit out two rounds and ref a bit, although I'd quite like to play one game - I might ask for volunteers to take a bye.
User avatar
Jamrowski
Committee Member
Posts: 1022
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:43 am
Location: Jacksonville - "Go Jags"
Flag: Christmas Island

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:03 pm

I may be wrong, but I think Hollywood Steve is planning to play - assuming he’s available, there’s our 8th player
Team Yankee: US Armoured Division
Flames of War: Fighting First / Afrika Korps
DUST Tactics: USMC
40k: Grey Knights
User avatar
Lavallin
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:58 pm

Excellent if so. I'm out and about this week, but if you see him, please could you check with him? Many thanks.
User avatar
Jamrowski
Committee Member
Posts: 1022
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:43 am
Location: Jacksonville - "Go Jags"
Flag: Christmas Island

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:57 pm

Lavallin wrote:Excellent if so. I'm out and about this week, but if you see him, please could you check with him? Many thanks.


Sure - of course; he’s been really looking forward to it; what I don’t know if he’s booked the day off work / spoken to his manager re shift pattern....assuming he hasn’t, you’ll not keep him away from a Flames event easily (like last year, I suspect he may just miss the first game and arrive ahead of 12:00hrs and be ready for round 2)

I’ll get him fired up; I’m sure he’ll be there....
Team Yankee: US Armoured Division
Flames of War: Fighting First / Afrika Korps
DUST Tactics: USMC
40k: Grey Knights
User avatar
Stu's Idle
Posts: 1308
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:08 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Stu's Idle » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:15 pm

I might be able to twist CJ's arm as well. I'm not sure if he's played 4th yet though so he may be reluctant.
Flames Of War: Soviets
Team Yankee (6mm and 15mm): Soviets
Bolt Action: Soviets
DUST: SSU aka Soviets (anyone spotted the theme yet?)
Star Wars Armada: Imperials (Space Soviets, a long, long time ago)
Epic Armageddon: Imperials (Space Soviets, in the grim, far future)
Frostgrave: Dwarves (Short Soviets)
User avatar
Jamrowski
Committee Member
Posts: 1022
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:43 am
Location: Jacksonville - "Go Jags"
Flag: Christmas Island

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:05 pm

Lavallin wrote: If using multiple Formations, at least one Formation must be the same in all three rounds..


Apologies - just spotted this......

May make a huge difference to what I bring on the day; given it’s Tank Companies only, I assume that both formations must be Tanks?

And are there any rules re: the use of Allied Formations (Brits / Americans, Germans / Hungarians) or restrictions about use of formations from the same nation (so for example if your primary formation was from Grey Wolf, would all subsequent formation need to be taken from the same book?)

(I really do have massive reservations about Formations in Flames - various combinations of Formations are currently killing Team Yankee <Soviet Mech / Soviet Mech, British Mech / anything!> and Mid War <US / British Allied formations> and I can see the same thing happening in Late War sadly :( )
Last edited by Jamrowski on Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Team Yankee: US Armoured Division
Flames of War: Fighting First / Afrika Korps
DUST Tactics: USMC
40k: Grey Knights
User avatar
Lavallin
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:43 pm

Strong preference for both as tanks. Min sized tanks and max AT guns definitely does not meet the spirit or intent.
User avatar
Jamrowski
Committee Member
Posts: 1022
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:43 am
Location: Jacksonville - "Go Jags"
Flag: Christmas Island

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Lavallin wrote:Strong preference for both as tanks. Min sized tanks and max AT guns definitely does not meet the spirit or intent.


And:

...... are there any rules re: the use of Allied Formations (Brits / Americans, Germans / Hungarians) or restrictions about use of formations from the same nation (so for example if your primary formation was from Grey Wolf, would all subsequent formations need to be taken from the same book?)

Sorry to be so pedantic, but I really do hate formations in the game; V4 rules actually work well in my opinion (I actually like them) - it’s formations that break the V4 system badly (and to a degree Team Yankee) :(
Team Yankee: US Armoured Division
Flames of War: Fighting First / Afrika Korps
DUST Tactics: USMC
40k: Grey Knights
User avatar
Lavallin
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:05 pm

Jamrowski wrote:
Lavallin wrote:Strong preference for both as tanks. Min sized tanks and max AT guns definitely does not meet the spirit or intent.


And:

...... are there any rules re: the use of Allied Formations (Brits / Americans, Germans / Hungarians) or restrictions about use of formations from the same nation (so for example if your primary formation was from Grey Wolf, would all subsequent formations need to be taken from the same book?)

Sorry to be so pedantic, but I really do hate formations in the game; V4 rules actually work well in my opinion (I actually like them) - it’s formations that break the V4 system badly (and to a degree Team Yankee) :(


I'd slightly vary from that - I think the morale rules are the weakest part of v4, and I'd somewhat agree with you in that formations significantly impact the morale rules. My belief is that at lower points it's likely to be less of a problem, but I'm not keen to be proven wrong...

My understanding for Multiple Formations - and someone can tell me if I'm wrong, as I don't have my books with me - is that by Rules as Written, a formation is a valid choice if its core units (e.g. a StuG platoon, T-34 platoon, whatever) are available anywhere on the original company's force org chart. This is intended to drive formations representing parts of a coherent Division working together.

So I'd say yes to same book, and if force org charts within e.g. Grey Wolf allow German Tanks to take a Hungarian platoon, then a Hungarian allied formation would be legit. Equally, if the org chart permits, I could imagine US Formations with British allies from Overlord. Otherwise, single nation only. (And for Germans, SS or Heer, but not mixed.) Still Tank/Tank only for preference.

Any exceptions to this by prior application. People bringing cheesy choices in an attempt to game the system will be booed, and possibly made to wear some kind of Hat Of Shame.
User avatar
Jamrowski
Committee Member
Posts: 1022
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:43 am
Location: Jacksonville - "Go Jags"
Flag: Christmas Island

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:20 pm

Love the ‘hat of shame’ idea - endorsed x1.

Came across CJ this evening - painting (no, really, it true I tell you!). He’s planning on attending :-)

Steve thinks he’ll not be working (tbc) so he’s planning on playing as well (he wants to use the V3 Forces of War ‘Armies’ book for his British - don’t think this is an issue (or is it?)
Team Yankee: US Armoured Division
Flames of War: Fighting First / Afrika Korps
DUST Tactics: USMC
40k: Grey Knights
User avatar
Lavallin
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:38 pm

Jamrowski wrote:Love the ‘hat of shame’ idea - endorsed x1.

Came across CJ this evening - painting (no, really, it true I tell you!). He’s planning on attending :-)

Steve thinks he’ll not be working (tbc) so he’s planning on playing as well (he wants to use the V3 Forces of War ‘Armies’ book for his British - don’t think this is an issue (or is it?)


I've got a vague recollection that v3 Forces technically can be used to make some quite nasty lists, but I don't recall whether Brits were among them, and moreover I don't think Steve is the type to do so.
User avatar
Lavallin
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm
Flag: Great Britain

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:41 pm

Also, I forgot to say: it'd be great to have CJ there as well. If we're up to 9 total, firstly I'm thrilled, and secondly, I might take Steve's slot in round one (assuming he's likely not to show until approx noon) and then sub out for round 2 and the big final melee.

Return to “Tournaments & Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest