Tanksgiving 2017

For upcoming tournaments and Events local and further afield

What system would you like to play?

Poll ended at Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:56 pm

Flames of War - EW
0
No votes
Flames of War - MW
0
No votes
Flames of War - LW
5
83%
Team Yankee
1
17%
Something else
0
No votes
Nothing, I just like answering polls
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 6
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:53 am

Lavallin wrote:
Jamrowski wrote:Love the ‘hat of shame’ idea - endorsed x1.

Came across CJ this evening - painting (no, really, it true I tell you!). He’s planning on attending :-)

Steve thinks he’ll not be working (tbc) so he’s planning on playing as well (he wants to use the V3 Forces of War ‘Armies’ book for his British - don’t think this is an issue (or is it?)


I've got a vague recollection that v3 Forces technically can be used to make some quite nasty lists, but I don't recall whether Brits were among them, and moreover I don't think Steve is the type to do so.


Steve’s British list looks just fine - Firefly’s are slightly cheaper (but only AT13) and still one per Platoon; trade off is that normal / 75mm Sherman’s are marginally more expensive; I had generated a list for him from Overlord, but he’s most adamant he wants to use his own book / list for the event.

As for me, I’ll throw my lot in with the ‘Red Tide’ - I’ll field Soviets on the day (break a habit of always fielding Germans at our local events) :D
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:01 pm

Update from Steve; increasingly likely that he will be available and ready to play on the day. Hoorah!

An evening appointment may mean he’ll have to leave earlier than planned so potentially won’t be available to play in the final 1250pts round (still tbc, but likely I’d say knowing Steve as well as anyone)
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:40 pm

There's a week to go, and the trophies have arrived!

Image

Hope to see you there, and best of luck to all.
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Vyper » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:53 am

We have trophies?! I might need to step up my game!

The last of my needed tanks are on the painting table at least.
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:24 pm

Never mind the trophies, where is the ‘Hat of Shame’ ??
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:33 pm

Hollywood Steve is confirmed for Sunday 03/11 :-)
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Stu's Idle » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:58 pm

Jamrowski wrote:Hollywood Steve is confirmed for Sunday 03/11 :-)

Is that 2019 then (which is the next Sunday 03/11)? That's forward planning!
Flames Of War: Soviets
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Bolt Action: Soviets
DUST: SSU aka Soviets (anyone spotted the theme yet?)
Star Wars Armada: Imperials (Space Soviets, a long, long time ago)
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:02 pm

Stu's Idle wrote:
Jamrowski wrote:Hollywood Steve is confirmed for Sunday 03/11 :-)

Is that 2019 then (which is the next Sunday 03/11)? That's forward planning!


There’s just no stopping the guy - he’s booking his Tanksgiving place years in advance; he’s relentless :lol:
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Stu's Idle » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:48 pm

Lavallin wrote:Date: Sun 03 Dec
Times: setup from 0900; first round 0930 - 1200; second round 1230 - 1500; third round 1530 - 1800+ (team game).

I'm going to have to shoot off to a family thing during the second round (I'd hoped it might not be happening but it's just been confirmed). Hopefully I'll be back in time for the third round. I'm happy to sit out round one if that makes the logistics easier.
Sorry about this.
Flames Of War: Soviets
Team Yankee (6mm and 15mm): Soviets
Bolt Action: Soviets
DUST: SSU aka Soviets (anyone spotted the theme yet?)
Star Wars Armada: Imperials (Space Soviets, a long, long time ago)
Epic Armageddon: Imperials (Space Soviets, in the grim, far future)
Frostgrave: Dwarves (Short Soviets)
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:01 pm

Stu's Idle wrote:
Lavallin wrote:Date: Sun 03 Dec
Times: setup from 0900; first round 0930 - 1200; second round 1230 - 1500; third round 1530 - 1800+ (team game).

I'm going to have to shoot off to a family thing during the second round (I'd hoped it might not be happening but it's just been confirmed). Hopefully I'll be back in time for the third round. I'm happy to sit out round one if that makes the logistics easier.
Sorry about this.


Real life comes first. With nine players I think we can have some sort of rotating bye. We will play it by ear on the day.
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:40 pm

Great Day Alex; thank you for taking the time to organise / co-ordinate - so good to see the Flames community turn out to support (well done everyone)

Still can’t help but feel there were more worthy winners of the converted ‘hat of shame’ than me though......
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:16 am

Thanks to all who came out and played some games - it was a good day, and it's always nice to get people together.

Congrats to Jono, who swept all before him in a series of crushing victories; well done also to Peter who took 2nd, and Jon, who despite only playing two games, picked up 11 points with a 3-6 loss and an 8-1 win, and thus ended up above several people sitting on 10.

It was a good day, but the results didn't quite work in terms of showing granularity. I think for future games at low points, I would potentially look to go back to the v3 system whereby every platoon loss matters for game results. Especially at 1400 and 1250 points, it often seemed to be the case that the first platoon loss didn't matter, and the second broke a company. Only one game in the course of the whole day didn't go 8-1!

Alternatively, we may need to go back up in points slightly, but I quite liked the lower points level in terms of playing quickly, as well as forcing some awkward choices. Jono's point about being surprised by the number of Veteran forces is well taken, but I think that's somewhat a function of the books chosen - there aren't a lot of German non-veteran options. Potentially 1250-ish points of LLW might look very different. However, all that is one to consider for next year.

The next Bristol Vanguard Flames of War event will be Easterfront, likely in early April next year (potentially 7th/8th or 14th/15th, unless people want to play on the actual Easter weekend). What are people's thoughts about an EW tournament?
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Wiggles » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:47 am

Indeed. GG all round.

Put an early war event in the calender and they will paint for it. Hopefully
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Stu's Idle » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:23 pm

Thanks guys. Sorry I missed the one vs one games but I had a lot of fun playing the multiplayer, as always. Special mention should be made of the Soviet pilot who snipped Alex's commander in an expertly planned strike during his one and only visit to the battlefield (he wasn't drunk and lucky, honest).

With some notice I can throw together something in EW... possibly a few T-34s! The Tiger of EW (that would be novel for me).
Flames Of War: Soviets
Team Yankee (6mm and 15mm): Soviets
Bolt Action: Soviets
DUST: SSU aka Soviets (anyone spotted the theme yet?)
Star Wars Armada: Imperials (Space Soviets, a long, long time ago)
Epic Armageddon: Imperials (Space Soviets, in the grim, far future)
Frostgrave: Dwarves (Short Soviets)
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Vyper » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:55 pm

Lavallin wrote:Jono's point about being surprised by the number of Veteran forces is well taken, but I think that's somewhat a function of the books chosen - there aren't a lot of German non-veteran options.


I would have gladly gone for more numerous Trained troops, but Hungarians don't get anything except C/V for their tank companies outside of Early War!

Was very pleased (and surprised) to snag second place, but mostly I was happy to just get a couple of ludicrous games against Alex in. Clearly the axis powers should have worked harder on developing stealth technology for their panthers and they could have won! I just need to work out how to beat back the Russian hordes now.

I would be very happy to play Early War for Easter, and have no commitments for around that time currently. Will this be a tank-based event again? Would people mind me proxying 38(t)s as Toldis?
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:40 pm

Stu's Idle wrote:Special mention should be made of the Soviet pilot who sniped Alex's commander in an expertly planned strike during his one and only visit to the battlefield (he wasn't drunk and lucky, honest).

Turnabout is fair play! I've done as bad to you in the past, so it's only fair that I get it back in turn. I'm sure that won't be the last time one of us suffers from an air strike either...

Vyper wrote:I would be very happy to play Early War for Easter, and have no commitments for around that time currently. Will this be a tank-based event again? Would people mind me proxying 38(t)s as Toldis?

I'd rather wait until nearer the time to commit, but at the moment I'm leaning toward an Open Early War format. I do like Tank forces, and tend to feel they play faster overall, but I'd also like not to exclude people too much, and Infantry are often easier to convert between eras (a rifle is pretty much a rifle).

No issues with proxying, as long as they fulfil my three basic ground rules:

  1. Clarity: all proxies to be declared up front; no "this was actually a King Tiger all along" shenanigans.
  2. Consistency: as far as possible, have a clear one-to-one mapping, e.g. "all 38s are Toldis". "Some 38s are Toldis" can work, if there's a clear demarcation (e.g. painted are 'real', unpainted are proxies); "I'll tell you which are which as we go" is messy.
  3. Comparability: for gameplay purposes, as well as opponent mental wellbeing, it's generally a good idea to proxy with something that's somewhere near the same dimensions/category. Large bases for large bases; full-sized tanks for full-sized tanks. 38s to Toldis is fine; 38s to StuGs would be a stretch. A Pz38(t) to a Maus is right out.
(p.s. Not implying that you, or anyone else at Vanguard would try to take advantage; just laying out how I think proxying works best.)
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Vyper » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:00 pm

Lavallin wrote:
  1. Consistency: as far as possible, have a clear one-to-one mapping, e.g. "all 38s are Toldis". "Some 38s are Toldis" can work, if there's a clear demarcation (e.g. painted are 'real', unpainted are proxies); "I'll tell you which are which as we go" is messy.


Not an issue, sadly, as I can't use 38s in early war. You know, when they'd actually be useful. ;)
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Stu's Idle » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:32 pm

Lavallin wrote:Infantry are often easier to convert between eras (a rifle is pretty much a rifle).


Some of my Russians might have to look a little American if I choose the infantry horde option (a small list I've just thrown together contains 54 rifle teams).

The tank horde of 10 T-34s is an option but I'm guessing we won't be playing at 3,215 points (the cost of 10 T-34 in Early War!).
Flames Of War: Soviets
Team Yankee (6mm and 15mm): Soviets
Bolt Action: Soviets
DUST: SSU aka Soviets (anyone spotted the theme yet?)
Star Wars Armada: Imperials (Space Soviets, a long, long time ago)
Epic Armageddon: Imperials (Space Soviets, in the grim, far future)
Frostgrave: Dwarves (Short Soviets)
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:28 pm

Tanksgiving 2017: surprised at how many 8-1 games there were? Not sure if this a feature of the new rules or a characteristic of playing Tank Companies at relatively few points (not sure it detracted from a great day for everyone however).

Easterfront18: Agree with Alex, if it’s a one day event (having organised these things before) we should aim for Tank Companies only (although I have early War FJ’s is anyone fancies a challenge). I’d be up for it assuming it’s sensible points - 1550pts was in V3 considered the ‘sweet spot’ for early War I believe....
Last edited by Jamrowski on Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:30 pm

.....also wouldn’t mind something TY at some point although once again I’d advocate single Tank Company formations as the way to go (TY Mech just breaks the game currently)
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:17 am

Jamrowski wrote:Tanksgiving 2017: surprised at how many 8-1 games there were? Not sure if this a feature of the new rules or a characteristic of playing Tank Companies at relatively few points (not sure it detracted from a great day for everyone however).


I think it's a combination of things - low points, generally comparatively small platoons (a function both of low points and of tanks vs inf), and the v4 rules meaning that the first platoon loss isn't counted. For future, I'd want to take a look at the format, but maybe consider going back to a v3-like position whereby 8-1 is for wins with no platoons lost; 7-2 for a single loss; and 6-3 for 2+.

Easterfront18: Agree with Alex, if it’s a one day event (having organised these things before) we should aim for Tank Companies only (although I have early War FJ’s is anyone fancies a challenge). I’d be up for it assuming it’s sensible points - 1550pts was in V3 considered the ‘sweet spot’ for early War I believe....


I wouldn't want to go much higher than 1500, definitely. And I'm aware that EW has relatively low lethality compared to later periods. That said, as previously posted, I don't want to exclude people, so I am still leaning to making it a (mostly) open event. I say "mostly", because I need to refresh myself on what EW desert shenanigans exist, and I may well need to take a view on saying "no Desert Fort", or how exactly raiding forces would work.

To ensure that we keep things manageable as a one-day event, I would have to enforce round times, meaning that games which do not go to a result will count as a draw (i.e. mutual loss). Infantry players will have to take this warning under advisement and plan having e.g. a few mobile units.

Jamrowski wrote:.....also wouldn’t mind something TY at some point although once again I’d advocate single Tank Company formations as the way to go (TY Mech just breaks the game currently)


Happy to play some TY, and I agree that ATGM-spam is currently simply un-fun. It's really not good to play against, but it's not even that interesting to play as. My new job is keeping me fairly busy - can I delegate organisation of a TY event to you? I'll try to keep on keeping on top of WW2 stuff...
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:30 pm

Sure Alex, I’m happy to support where I can - so yes, I’ll pick up the TY stuff

Also.....

Following the Soviet Tsunami this year, I’ll take the ref. role / player ‘bye’ at Tanksgiving next year so you can play in the full 3 rounds of competition (assuming you don’t change the format of course)

Further..... I’ll maintain the tradition of the ‘spare player’ and field a ‘fun’ list*

*I may need you to keep me honest as a fun list for me normally entails:
- how many Soviet tanks can I get on he board
- how many Reluncant Trained King Tigers can I field
Or
- how many Reluctant Trained Panthers do I own

.......may need to think about using Romanian Armour or my US Chaffee Company
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:45 pm

So I reached out to ‘The Oracle’ and 1550 early is seen as giving balanced play (especially with Armour / Tank Companies); in true BF tradition, above 1550pts and Soviet Barbarossa Armoured list rule supreme (Tank Spam) and Brits can field an unhealthy number of Infantry Tanks (Matilda / Valentine combo is not pleasant).

Below 1550pts (certainly below 1500pts), Veteran German Armoured lists apparently struggle.

Not sure about British Cruiser Tank lists from Blitzkreig - they were the ‘go to’ list at one point? (Don’t hear much about them now <probably outgunned by gribbly Barbarossa Soviets?>)
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Lavallin » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:09 am

Jamrowski wrote:So I reached out to ‘The Oracle’ and 1550 early is seen as giving balanced play (especially with Armour / Tank Companies); in true BF tradition, above 1550pts and Soviet Barbarossa Armoured list rule supreme (Tank Spam) and Brits can field an unhealthy number of Infantry Tanks (Matilda / Valentine combo is not pleasant). Below 1550pts (certainly below 1500pts), Veteran German Armoured lists apparently struggle.

I'm prepared to defer to those with experience. 1550 vs 1500 doesn't sound like a big change. (A part of me is perversely tempted to call "1525" to minimise netlisting...)

Not sure about British Cruiser Tank lists from Blitzkreig - they were the ‘go to’ list at one point? (Don’t hear much about them now <probably outgunned by gribbly Barbarossa Soviets?>)

Do you mean the British Armoured Regiment? The BAR was - semi-famously - so broken that Battlefront had to errata it; unfortunately for British players the 'fix' was widely seen as an over-correction which made the list basically unviable, if not in the strictest sense unplayable.
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:11 am

ah, Netlisting....

Not something I’ve seen in our community (Most people’s Late War lists / preferences are so specific, I’m not sure the majority could netlist even if they wanted to.....).

Something ‘new’ like Early War could result in people searching for a list and simply building it I guess - can’t think of anyone that would intentionally do that, plus Tournament points for early War have not been 1550 for a few years so I’m not so sure how good / relevant any lists would be now?

That said I did just Google 1550pts Early War lists out of curiosity and it did return a couple (fewer than I expected), mostly German and Japanese (also odd Finnish list); few were Tank Companies though and fewer still from Barbarossa which was seen after it’s release as the ‘go to’ book for Early War competitive Armies....

Personally, I have a Mid War British and DAK army that sadly, hardly get used, so I’m just going to try and recycle an Early War army from what I have.....filling any obvious gaps where a proxy isn’t realistic.

BAR! That’s the one - it could be Configured to be very competitive at one point (few years ago now); since Barbarossa, it’s gone quiet though, so I guessed it was either nerfed or Barbarossa set the new meta?

Polls always seem popular on the forum - is it worth a vote on points? (1500, 1525, 1550, 1575 or a ‘Go big or go home ‘ <But Stu isn’t allowed any T34’s, KV’s, Valentines or Matilda’s> 1650 pts). If people are still unsure of Early War and don’t want to commit too much money / effort at this stage, 1250pts is the official Early War Tournament points level for 2018 (could be the best points level to generate interest and play on the day?)
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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Postby Jamrowski » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:55 am

Poll now open in our World War 2 system section.....
Team Yankee: US / Soviet Armour
Flames of War: EW British Armour / LW US Armour
DUST Tactics: Allied / USMC

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