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Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:24 am
by Jamrowski
Lavallin wrote:
Jamrowski wrote:
Lavallin wrote:
Again, I don't have my books with me, so I'd have to check. From memory, is that one platoon of halftracked infantry and one of Wespes as the core units?


As good as; they are actually Pioneers in KFZ 70's with Wespes backed by Armour choices in the Support Platoon list.

Another one that crossed my mind for the rules police (possibly less contentious than the above): Soviet Forward Detachment from Red Bear (PEREDOVOYE OTRYAD). It's mechanised but in a Soviet way: HQ is Infantry plus a Tank, Core Choices are Tank Platoon plus an Infantry Platoon.....


Right, official (sounding) ruling time:

HG Schwereaufklärungsschwadron is out, because the majority of its core units are infantry or gun teams.

The Peredovoye Otryad is in because, not counting the two transport platoons, >50% of its core units can be taken from units which are composed of Tank Teams. BUT if you want to take this list, it also has to be built this way, with >50% of your core units as Tank type.


Yep: fine with ruling - to be honest the only way I would build it would be with >50% core as Tanks; if I field on the day I'll send you the Army list in advance for peer review / approval ;)

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:11 pm
by Jamrowski
Assuming there will be missions with 'Reserves' what is the ruling re: points on the board (for 1500 pts games, it's normally 900 pts <60%>). If we are playing 1525 pts, are we going to maintain the 60% 'rule' and allow 915 pts on the board?

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:23 am
by Lavallin
Missions will be selected using the "stances" (attack/manoeuvre/defend) from the More Missions PDF; missions with Reserves (incl Delayed, Scattered, Deep) will use the standard 60% on the board.

This 60% will be of the final agreed points level, so if e.g. a player brought a 1475pt list to a 1500pt game, they would still be allowed to place 900pts on the board.

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:49 am
by Jamrowski
Lavallin wrote:
This 60% will be of the final agreed points level, so if e.g. a player brought a 1475pt list to a 1500pt game, they would still be allowed to place 900pts on the board.


Makes sense; any idea when final points will be agreed? (....just in case I need to paint some tanks!)

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:16 am
by Lavallin
We seem to be settled nearly-unanimously on LW, and there's also a solid preference for Sunday 3rd Dec. No objections heard to the proposed list of books, either.

As for points, my proposal is as follows; people can then criticise and throw stones as they wish.

Points will be a De-Escalation format! 1st Round 1550pts, 2nd Round 1400pts, 3rd Round 1250pts. This should speed up each round slightly, which will be especially useful if we do play a big team game to finish.

No requirement to have the same units from round to round, although unless it's really impossible to do so, please try to stick at least with the same overall company.

(Is this too silly/unusual?)

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:18 am
by Lavallin
I'll let this stand for at least a week, maybe two, to let people have a think about things. I'd quite like to confirm next week, but will definitely write up an event pack, including final final details NLT Mon 06 Nov, giving four weeks from that date until the event.

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:47 am
by Jamrowski
Lavallin wrote:
(Is this too silly/unusual?)


No - it's just different and there's no harm in that; I'd be happy to try it......

The alternative may be to cap forces at a constant 1500pts for all games and be strict with time / number of turns (as a way of managing the day)

De-escalation with Tank Companies gets my vote however (never played that format before); should get everyone thinking :D

Personally, I'm not too bothered about a large game at the end (I'd be happy to bow out after all competitive rounds); I'm normally exhausted by that point in the late afternoon / evening. Large team games we can pretty much organise for any week day (that said if we do finish early enough I'm happy to throw my lot in rather than leave an odd number of players / unbalanced armies etc)

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:55 pm
by Wiggles
I think de-escalation could be intersting

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:49 am
by Vyper
Happy with a de-escalation, although would be somewhat concerned as to how feasible it is to play three games AND a big game at the end!

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:13 am
by Lavallin
It was pointed out yesterday that the Deep Reserves rule is very tough on tank-only companies (like the old mobile reserves, but more so - only one unit with Front Armour 4 or greater). In my opinion, this is a feature, not a bug, but will lead to the following considerations:

-Be aware that we are using the full More Missions pack. Have a read of this beforehand, but if you don't want to play a mission with Deep Reserves, don't pick Defend! But do be aware that these missions can be in the mix.
-Consider Deep Reserves during force selection; taking e.g. a platoon of infantry, AT guns, or lighter vehicles such as Marders/M10s etc can bulk out your forces.

Also, there was some confusion above about games - my intent had been to go for two 'competitive' games (while still remaining friendly!) and a team game to finish, but would people rather have three singles matches? I'm happy either way around.

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:34 am
by Jamrowski
Lavallin wrote:It was pointed out yesterday that the Deep Reserves rule is very tough on tank-only companies (like the old mobile reserves, but more so - only one unit with Front Armour 4 or greater).

Also, there was some confusion above about games - my intent had been to go for two 'competitive' games (while still remaining friendly!) and a team game to finish, but would people rather have three singles matches? I'm happy either way around.


Good call on Deep Reserves - will stop Soviet Tank ‘Spamming’ (or rather it introduces a risk that makes players consider the downside of Tank ‘Spamming’).......not that either Stu or myself would ever do such a thing of course!

My personal preference would be for 3 single matches (Tanksgiving is a great opportunity for me to play against opponents that I would not normally get the opportunity to face during the year); that said, I’d be happy to go with the majority decision.

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:22 pm
by Stu's Idle
I love the big games so my vote would be for that but I'm also happy to go with the majority.

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:19 am
by Vyper
I would also push for the opportunity to have a big game. It's definitely something that we'd have less of a chance to do compared to a series of smaller ones that could be played on evenings.

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:16 am
by Lavallin
On the basis that we're four weeks out, and there's a (slim) majority, let's go with singles games at 1550 and 1400, and a team game at 1250pts.

So, final details (unless there's a massive outcry):

Date: Sun 03 Dec
Times: setup from 0900; first round 0930 - 1200; second round 1230 - 1500; third round 1530 - 1800+ (team game).

Lists: Tank Companies from "early late war" books (Normandy, Italy, Red Bear/Grey Wolf) and - if you're a bit masochistic - Gung Ho/Banzai. Appropriate period pdfs are fine. Some mechanised companies may be allowed, by application; rule of thumb is that >50% of platoons must be composed of armoured tank teams. Mech Inf is not in the intended spirit.

The format is De-escalation: 1550pts first round, 1400pts second round, 1250pts third round. Points rebate rules apply for redundant command teams, staff teams, etc.

Units do not have to be identical between rounds, but all three lists must be from the same Company/Formation. If using multiple Formations, at least one Formation must be the same in all three rounds.

Missions: The More Missions pdf will be used. If there is not a clear Axis player and Allied player, players will roll off, with the higher roll counting as Allied for the purpose of picking a tactic. Players wishing to make a hidden choice may do so; possible methods include printing some slips of paper; holding one, two or three dice; or having a die with a specific number showing. Come on, you're all grown-ups.

As another reminder, the Deep Reserves rule can be punishing to armour, so think carefully about your list choices and your tactical stances.

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:21 pm
by Vyper
Lavallin wrote:As another reminder, the Deep Reserves rule can be punishing to armour, so think carefully about your list choices and your tactical stances.


This is proving to be remarkably tricky! Seems to be safe if you never plan on Defending though.

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:58 am
by Jamrowski
Do we have a final / confirmed list of runners / riders? (Are we expecting an even split of Axis / Allied entries?)

I must admit, I’m looking forward to it - feels too long since we’ve managed to get the Flames community together (Alex - thanks for all your efforts in terms of making it happen; really appreciated)

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:31 pm
by andycuk
I'm unfortunately unable to do that day - given that I've been unable to get down for a game the past few weeks due to a trapped nerve in my back, I'm incredibly lacking game experience and would just serve as Tiger/StuG fodder anyhow!!

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:47 pm
by Lavallin
Sorry to hear about your back, and sorry you can't make it. Feel free to drop in anyway if you want to just say hello, and otherwise I hope we'll manage to get a game in at some time maybe in the new year.

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:57 pm
by Lavallin
Jamrowski wrote:Do we have a final / confirmed list of runners / riders? (Are we expecting an even split of Axis / Allied entries?)

I must admit, I’m looking forward to it - feels too long since we’ve managed to get the Flames community together (Alex - thanks for all your efforts in terms of making it happen; really appreciated)


I definitely don't have the confirmed info to hand, but I believe we've got:

Me - Germans
Jon - Germans (I think)
Chewie - possibly Soviets?
Stu - Soviets
Seb - Brits
Peter - Hungarians
Jono - you tell me!

I hope I'm missing one more, because it would be quite nice to have 8, and four tables. If we do end up with seven, I'm happy to sit out two rounds and ref a bit, although I'd quite like to play one game - I might ask for volunteers to take a bye.

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:03 pm
by Jamrowski
I may be wrong, but I think Hollywood Steve is planning to play - assuming he’s available, there’s our 8th player

Re: Tanksgiving 2017

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:58 pm
by Lavallin
Excellent if so. I'm out and about this week, but if you see him, please could you check with him? Many thanks.